Happy day, dearests!
Sean pens the following (did you get that Sean Penn pun? Did you? It was really great, wasn’t it? HA HA!):
Love your blog and your style (fashion and otherwise)!
I’d appreciate your advice on wearing a dress shirt without a tie. I always feel like the collar is open too much and looks a little sloppy showing my undershirt.
Are there any specific guidelines for how open a collar should be, undershirt vs. no undershirt? The pics you took of London men all seem to be sans undershirt (or they may be wearing a v-neck). It feels less professional for me not to wear an undershirt.
I’m also curious if there are any good websites for basic men’s style. I’m not clueless, but I’m not interested in spending time chasing down what’s fashionable/professional as it changes.
Thanks!
Dear Sean-Not-Penn,
First of all, I do believe that there are some good generic websites for men’s fashion in the BTFM archives under “Tips For My Menfolk.” Let me know if you find what you’re looking for there, because I seem to recall finding some great sites a few years ago and posting about them. In the meantime, my faithful readers may have recommendations. And I promise to dig around for newer resources for my gents when I get a moment, too. Like, ooh, here’s an interesting conversation on the topic right here!
Yes, Sean Penn-less, I agree with you that a dress shirt with an open neck and no undershirt is not appropriate for a clergyman. It’s really about neatness and formality, and a lot of your decision will depend on whether or not you are a hirsute dude. Quite simply, we shouldn’t be seeing chest hair poking out of your shirt top unless you are auditioning for a spot in “Real Clergy Of the Jersey Shore,” a comment for which my Jersey Shore colleagues are sure to chastise me. “We don’t wear dress shirts open over hairy chests!” they will chide. “We don’t even own dress shirts! We wear fitted mesh gym tops, fuggedabowtit!”
Lest I be seen as an anti-chest hair religion blogger, I want to say that I believe that chest hair is a beautiful part of the male body and that I have not forgotten our Scriptures which assure us that God loves every hair on our chest. I think that’s in one of the psalms. Or possibly in the Sermon on the Mount. I don’t have my concordance right at hand but you get the point. The point is, darlings, keep the love of God and your chest buttoned up and wear a TIE with your dress shirts. If you don’t wear a tie, keep yourself looking hot, respectful and professional with an undershirt. It needn’t be a white shirt, but you will look eminently more put-together with one than without one.
*Hotness is not a requirement for men of the cloth. It is, however, nice work if you can get it.
And remember, boys, we should be able to see an inch of cuff poking out of your suit jacket. That’s why cuff links are still wonderful accessories to own. If you have gorilla sleeves brushing your knuckles, for heaven’s sake hie thee to a tailor and pay the $10 to get your sleeves hemmed.
Pigeons, you are now free to opine.
And Sean, thank you for loving this blog. It loves you back even more.
I opine that a dress shirt with an open collar and no tie should have a little starch on that collar, so it stands up and does not collapse like a sad limp used kleenex. [And I generate a polite round of applause for that suggestion. – PB]
The menswear scene has really been taking off over the past year on the internet. But the best basic menswear site by far is putthison.com. They have a great video series, but the real wealth is the archive of posts. The distinction is between “style” and “fashion;” they care little for “fashion.” Spend some time looking through it and you can’t go wrong.
If I may self-promote a bit… I started a blog to document my own journey of trying to dress more… let’s say “intentionally” as a pastor. There are WAY too many male pastors out there who just don’t try (I used to be one of them.) I figure if I can inspire just one to keep their pants from pooling around their ratty old shoes while representing Christ I’ve done something worth doing. http://preachwithstyle.com
As for the shirt thing… it’s not good to see an undershirt, but seeing an undershirt definitely trumps seeing chest hair. I would add one thing: don’t let your shirt collar slip above your jacket (if you wear one with your open collar.) Button down collars are good for keeping this from happening as are neck sizes that fit even if you aren’t going to button them. It’s the seemingly small details like these that make all the difference in menswear.
Thanks for caring, Sean (and of course Peacebang!)
These rubrics are fine, however the events of the day perhaps complicate matters if one has reason to remove a tie during the course of the day. A v-neck undershirt under a dress shirt with a tie, while not an abomination, looks gooofy.
PS Trimming chest hair around the collar area is a good thing – unless one is after a 1970’s porn star look.
My husband (also clergy) owns quite a few black undershirts too. Perfect for those darker dress shirts that he wears in the fall/winter months.