The MA Council of Churches solicited my opinion about this article through their Facebook page.
I am happy to respond.
One of the things that most upset me and caused me to decline a half dozen subsequent mainstream media requests for interviews was when Martin Bashir of “Nightline” introduced my 2007 segment by saying something like, “Most people don’t go to their minister for FASHION ADVICE, but if you’re a member of Victoria Weinstein’s congregation…”
I was furious when I heard that because I absolutely do NOT “give fashion advice” to lay people, do not want to, and am simply glad that Americans are still attending church. I don’t care what they wear. I don’t care if they come in their pajamas or in bathing suits. I don’t care if they come dirty from the garden, sweaty from the gym, or with greasy hair straight from the sickbed (as long as they feel well enough to attend).
God is a “come as you are” God, and when I hear priests complain about modesty at Mass I hear that as code for “we don’t like you girls to look too sexy in the Church.” Get real: sexiness upsets priests, not God. We’ve had enough of that repressive crap, fear and hatred of women’s bodies, demonization of sexuality, and obsession with breasts and body parts as if those comprised the totality of women’s being.
For a Church that is roiled in sexual abuse and gross misconduct — a Church that is up to its institutional ears in accusations of rape and abuse — that’s a pretty petty concern, worrying about people’s modesty at Mass.
Modesty was a concern of Paul’s, not of Jesus, and I’m a Christian, not a Paulite.
My crusade is about clergy attire as an expression of vitality, contemporary relevance, self-awareness, spiritual presence, beauty, creativity and dignity. It is not concerned whatsoever with what laypeople wear to church.
There have been times when I offiicated at a wedding and thought, “Holy cow, woman, that is a seriously too-short/tight/low-cut dress to wear in this church” but I recognize that as a personal opinion, not as a religious concern. Wedding-goers in my beautiful New England meetinghouse with bare shoulders and their bazooms almost entirely revealed just seems tasteless to me. I cringe as an expression of elitist snobbery and aesthetic displeasure, not out of theological conviction. I’m not proud of that but at least I recognize my reaction for what it is and do not try to dress it up (pun intentional) with faux piety.
If a minister shows up in a tacky outfit, I consider THAT is a religious concern because I hold ministers responsible for representing the Church.
If priests and minister start policing lay attire, what’s next? An insistence that everyone who attends church have showered recently? “No shirt, no shoes, no service?”
I’m sorry, but I think that would make Jesus vomit.
“Whosoever may come” doesn’t just refer to people who are appropriately clad. Clergy should remember that we represent an institution that has thousands of years of sexual repression and abuse to atone for. Some humility would go a long way here. And oh, there’s this bit of advice from our friend Mr. Jesus: If thy right eye offend thee, you know what to do.
Saaay, Mary, could you cover up a bit before we do this thing?
Thank you for this. I’ve had LONG conversations fraught with emotion with colleagues. Do I hope that congregants feel inspired to wear their “Sunday best” to church? Sure. But do I care if they don’t? Not a bit. In fact, I hope they come in all their human beauty.
I think that if the congregation wants to address inappropriate attire amongst themselves, they should do that. It is their church, and if they feel that the worship experience is being damaged in some way by someone showing up in totally distracting or wildly disrespectful clothing, they should speak to the issue (and hopefully directly to that person). But we just don’t know people’s stories. Sending the minister after it like it’s a religious issue is wrong. It is a cultural issue & a community issue. I should have also said that it is completely fine for clergy to suggest attire guidelines to ushers or others participating in some way in worship leadership and representing the congregation in that way.
When I was in high school, I went through a series of ridiculous hair colors (most of which were totally unflattering, but that’s not the point!) I was really active in church and youth group, and was there every Sunday sitting in the third pew. My dad told me once after a church event that another member had asked the pastor to say something to me about my inappropriate hair, and she responded that she was just glad to have me so involved, and that “hair color is not a theological issue.”
I felt SO welcomed by that, and it was that attitude that has kept me in the church. And now I’m a candidate for ministry.
I try to wear my “Saturday Best” to our (reform) temple most times, but sometimes I have to come from work, or working out to make it to services in time. Or I have to take one of my children to some sort of messy activity right after. Just like Nirvana, Come as You Are seems to be the motto of our Rabbi, because he’d rather get you there slobby than not have you there at all.
Thank you so much for this.
Absolutely right. As a minister to youth, I’ve heard my share of comments about the way they dress. And my response has always been that if God doesn’t care, then why should I. I’m glad they are there.
I’m not a minister, but I am a female professional and I read your blog for, well, fashion tips!
My congregation’s pastors dress nicely but the congregants dress quite informally. It’s very much a jeans and t-shirts group, which is not what I grew up with. I would prefer to see people dress up a little more, especially the acolytes, but I remind myself of what Kate’s pastor said, that it’s just good that people are there, no matter what they wear.
One of my most striking memories of traveling in Israel is the time I was asked to tie a wrapskirt over my (trouser-cut) jeans before entering a church, and the many times thereafter of being looked over by a priest before being allowed to enter the places where Jesus walked and preached and lived and died. Priest-as-gatekeeper strikes me as so contrary to everything Christianity should be, and my church experiences were often marked by the suspicion with which I was treated at the entrance.
Good reflection on this.
I have a difficult time thinking any “dress code” for parishoners as reasonable. It is interesting, of course, that “Modest” by their definition doesn’t include leaving at home fur coats, shoes or handbags that cost over $200 and diamonds over 1 carrat in size. Or any man’s watch that costs over $200, and any expensive suits, ties and shoes. Oh, and any car with the word “luxury” in the description. I believe that both Paul and Jesus concerned themselves with that kind of modesty.
I am so angry that this is still an issue in our churches. I am with you – as long as they come to Church, whatever they wear is fine with me. I doubt that we come to final judgment (if there is such a thing) being given “points” for how well we have dressed.
That said, I am very conscious that I am not only a clergyperson, but a female one. I wear clothing that is appropriate for the Church event, but I am also conscious that the Church historically has not been kind to female bodies and I want to celebrate my curvy. feminine self because that is how God made me. And I believe in bling and nail varnish.
Amen to all that.
When people complain to me about how their fellow worshipers dress/smell/behave, I smile sweetly and say, “You keep them in your prayers, won’t you?” I’m pretty sure you can’t pray for and be ugly to somebody at the same time. Or maybe you can.
Anyone who can pray for somebody and be ugly to them at the same time has a problem. Something about that stinks, ad it isn’t the person who is estranged from soap and water.
Just one witch’s opinion, folks.
I agree that we don’t do dress codes — I do want people IN the pews! But when I have a young woman who comes to me, tearful, because her date “won’t keep his hands out of my shirt” (and she is wearing a low cut and tight top) I wonder what to say.
On the one hand, yes, she should wear what she wants and have her boundaries respected. (I teach my own girls that!) On the other, when she wears very revealing clothes and wonders why she only attracts the bottom feeders on the food chain… I want to offer advice but don’t want to be adversarial.
She needs a little help in the judgement department… I think? [Yes, but that’s a pastoral issue, not a policy issue. – PB]
The most profound worship experience I’ve had in the past few years is when attending an inner-city congregation in Cleveland. The congregation is comprised of all kinds of folks — black, white; gay, straight; poor, rich; sober and not; mentally ill and mentally healthy…and on and on.
When the congregation came forward from their pews for communion, those who had not showered that day were served with those who had. One mentally ill gentleman, wearing ripped, dirty sweatpants processed next to a gentleman in a three piece suit. All were in need of God’s grace — all received it. I wept. THAT is Church.
[Bingo. – PB]
What about lay worship leaders? My pastor was very concerned when a sixteen year old read the lesson in a very short skirt. In my church, elders who serve communion usually wear dresses and suits – but not the following week when they sit in the pews. Is there a different standard when you are leading worship?
[Yes, it’s fine to suggest guidelines for those who are representing the congregation in a position of leadership at worship. I say suggest because again, there may be individuals who can’t change their attire for one reason or another. “Dressing up” for a 16 year-old girl nowadays usually involves something short or tight, unfortunately. They’re not trying to be provocative so much as they’re trying to be more formal. That’s what they own in that department. If the young woman was in cut-off shorts, that would be worth addressing. A too-short skirt is a skirt, and it’s dressing up for that kid. – PB]
Yes! Well said.
this is a great response.
Amen and Amen!
And Rosemary- preach it sister!
Back when I was a student pastor, I served an urban church in one of Massachusett’s smaller distressed cities. There was a fellow in the neighborhood who had more than his share of challenges–developmental, emotional, intellectual. He came to church every now and then. One Communion Sunday in April, I think it was, he came to worship dressed in a dirty, scruffy Santa Claus suit–no idea where he got it or why he was wearing it! When it was time to come forward, he wound up kneeling at the rail right beside one of our elder gentlemen, who always came to church dressed impeccably in a 3-piece suit. When I served them their small glasses of the unfermented fruit-of-the-vine, they turned to one another, tapped their glasses in a mutual salute, and downed the contents. I have never felt the reality of the body of Christ more than at that moment!
I am in total agreement with PB’s response…..AND I am also torn about occasional result of it when lay persons are involved in worship. I am a part of a multiple staff and was in the pews when our Youth Choir sang a very lovely, somber “Good Friday” hymn. The Youth Choir doesn’t wear robes and one of the young women was in a graphic T-shirt with text exclaiming something along the lines of being a ‘powerful Chick’. It was hard for me (perhaps I was the only one?) to concentrate on the Good Friday meaning of the hymn. On the one hand, I was doing a silent, “Yes!” in my mind for her sense of personal power. On the other hand, I was irritated with myself for not having talked with the choir director previoulsy about the simple request of asking the kids to wear ‘plain shirts’ for that particular service. Was I over-reacting? My usual rule-of-thumb is along the lines of PB’s. People in leadership during worship need to be non-distracting so that the attention of worshippers can be on God. I didn’t say anything to this young woman, but I do plan to suggest to the choir director, for the future, that thought be given to suggestions for Choir attire during worship.
Not only is this a hospitality issue, but it’s a theological one. The unspoken (or here, spoken) mandate that you need to clean up for church implies that one needs to clean up for God. That, somehow, we aren’t presentable to God unless we’re showered and in business casual. Garbage.
Thanks for this. As a layperson, I try to have respect for older parishioners and visitors, but my Sunday wardrobe tends toward slacks and blazers. When I teach Sunday school, I sit on the floor with the kids. Other weeks, I help clean up after coffee hour. Also, I tend to ride my bike to church (one less car in the parking lot). All this is not to toot my own horn, as much as to say that modern church life is often about more than sitting in a pew all gussied up and then going home to carve the Sunday roast. People who are active in congregations may be taking the youth apple picking after church, or performing any number of church-related tasks not done in one’s finery.
It is a joy and a blessing to be able to tend to one’s appearance, but as others have stated, it can turn into something else if not done in the right spirit. I worship in an urban church that was once bustling with activity, before the flight to the suburbs in the 50’s and 60’s. It has experienced a resurgence in membership over the last 20 years, but we used to look at old pictures and wax nostalgic for the days when women wore hats and men more ties. Then a woman who grew up in the church during that time shared a childhood memory – of people talking behind her mother’s back because she couldn’t afford a new Sunday coat.
As another reader said, I look to your blog for guidance as a professional woman and someone who occasionally represents my church. I value your candid, no-nonsense opinions, but today’s post has helped me see another facet of your ability to be a pastor and stand up for your flock.
This is helpful. I must admit that I love the more formal end of church attire. I love the women in hats and skirts. I love a man in a suit and tie. It makes church An Occasion, something special. And I fully acknowledge my own need to get real, and to appreciate people in whatever dress they feel good in.
Also, I think that churches that DO have a dress code of sorts have trouble spotting it and naming it for guests. I always want to know if people dress up for an event because I hate feeling under-dressed. So when a church website says “come as you are”, and everyone around me looks like they’re at the symphony, I’m a little cheesed off. Tsk – so many things to juggle…
Well said!
We have farmers, students, retirees, handyfolks, gardeners, accountants, and everything in between…there are folks for whom Sunday means dressing up and for others, Sunday is a day to gather.
Regardless of how folks dress, they are welcomed and genuinely so. When a parent laments that their kids don’t want to come to church in anything BUT jeans, I smile and remind them that God doesn’t care what they wear, as long as they show up.
It’s not about outward appearance but outward demeanor that makes a Christian a Christian. Yes, appearance is important, but what’s inside, especially with our sisters and brothers who are struggling, is far more important then what they can find to wear to church on Sunday.
I figure, if I don’t make a big deal out of it, no-one else should either. And to me, what folks wear doesn’t matter, as long as they come with open hearts in praise and thanksgiving.
Jesus meets us where we are, in our midst…not because of how we look. As far as I know, there’s no dress code in heaven.
Thank you for this. I am no longer Christian (converted to Judaism), but I remember many lectures by youth group leaders to the girls about dressing “modestly” so that we would not distract our “Christian brothers.” Yes, those poor guys with their lust and all. Talk about body shaming.
I appreciate this post. A lot.
“Not a Paulite” Well said
I think that you have always been forthright that your intention is to help clergy in their roles as community leaders and I think that you do it well.
However, you also have had an impact on this lay person. You have reminded me to take more care with my dress and appearance on those days that I am sent by the clergy and congregation on a eucharistic visit or serve as an usher (blazer, dress slacks and tie). You have taught me, in a subtle way that I could grasp, how to honor those who send me and those to whom I am sent.
Although I have not studied church history, I somehow suspect that the footwear choices of teenage acolytes have been a subject of discussion “…in the beginning, is now and shall be forevermore, world without end.”
PB: “They’re not trying to be provocative so much as they’re trying to be more formal. That’s what they own in that department.”
I used to wonder why some young women wore what I thought of as cocktail dresses to funerals. Eventually I decided that was what they owned in dressy black.
To echo the young women trying to be formal not provocative – I have a 16 year old daughter and we are both regularly frustrated with the impossibility of finding anything even remotely modest in the junior department of any given store. Teenage girls do not want to dress like adults – understandably so – and what is available to them, what is marketed to them, is, it seems to me, a huge social issue.
When it comes to worship leading, you really think the minister can only suggest guidelines, not require a certain kind of attire? [Yes. By requiring certain attire, a minister is unwittingly setting themselves up to reject a certain kind of person from ever being a worship leader. I think we’re entitled to make suggestions but not to require anything specific. Just another hill to die on, if you know what I mean. – PB]
Worship Associates in my congregation, whatever their age, are asked to dress no more casually than “business casual” when they lead the service. This is admittedly hard to define in Silicon Valley, where the CEO may show up in sweats and flip flops, but people do know what it means. I’m easygoing and will accept various excuses, but “they don’t own any other clothes” is not a valid one except in poor communities. People who take their children on overseas vacations can afford to supply them with one pair of chinos.
Amen and alleluia! THANK YOU, PB. EXACTLY right! Every word. The dominion of Godde is nothing if not the great come-as-you-are party!
On the reverse side of things — congregants telling clergy how THEY should appear — I’ve learned to take all comments (which are still far more numerous for female clergy than for male, sadly) without any offense. But they are revelatory for the level of sexism and sexual repression that they reflect in our religious traditions and in our wider culture. Just yesterday, I was chided in an email by an older male from a congregation I previously served, asking if I had yet “gotten rid of that ridiculous red hair, so unbefitting for clergy.” To be clear, it’s a light auburn, cropped in a face-framing, modern cut. Though I long ago stopped taking offense at comments on my hair (or on the 3″ height of my heels, the shocking length of my skirts — mid-knee, my penchant for saturated colors, my 108 pound body — which people often tell me is too “fit” and “sexy” for ministry), I will never cease to be amazed that people think it’s appropriate to offer regular commentary on the appearance of the clergy who serve them. I don’t think it’s common for patients to offer a sartorial critique of their physicians or clients of their lawyers; yet congregants expect us, particularly female clergy, to embody an androgynous, dowdy public image. Frankly, I think this is often an unstated, hidden covenant between clergy and congregations, which ends up creating the very need for sites like this one to cure us all of that hideous epidemic. In my own case, appearing groomed and pulled together is frequently mistaken for being materialistic or unduly vain. I am so grateful to you and your ministry, PB, for publicly parsing that equation and exposing it for the nonsense that it is.
THANKYOU!
What to wear to church is an issue that I’ve been tossing up for some time, simply because I wasn’t sure where to draw the line between dressing for God/respecting him and being yourself/comfortable; especially when its hard to tell whether I’m dressing for God or my church as where it covers a broad spectrum of formality for weekly worship.
So thank you for being so clear and succinct about the issue – I’m now going to feel a lot more comfortable when I turn up to church on the weekend. 🙂
I do want to say this – I’m 24 years old and genderqueer/trans. I look REALLY young – always mistaken for a high schooler, occasionally for somebody younger. It’s a problem a lot of trans guys face.
But I’m looking to go into ministry. It’s where I’m headed and it’s where I’m going sooner rather than later. But right now, yeah, I’m still laity. I hold no official position in my congregation. But I’d still like to be taken seriously and I finally realized that my “normal” style may be contributing to some extent in the “folks treating me like a kid” issue I was having. T-shirts with ironic/funny/geeky sayings don’t convey “I’m an adult” to people. Jeans and sweatshirts are, at best, college kid attire to many people.
So I started to shift my wardrobe. And not just for church. I retired almost all of my t-shirts for home or *maybe* going out with friends to a casual place usage. I got a few cheap shirts with actual collars at Goodwill. I invested in some non-sneaker shoes to wear on a daily basis.
I make sure that things are tucked in, combed, not wrinkled, etc before I head out in the morning. And before church I make sure I look like I want to be there. Like I got up in the morning and decided to go to church and to look nice for church.
I don’t think that there should be dress codes, and I don’t even think people should treat me differently if I show up in a tshirt with dancing zombies on the front, but it was pretty mind blowing when I realized HOW MUCH my clothes were saying about me. I want them to say “I want to be here, and I respect this community, this space, and these people enough to put effort into looking nice and being a positive example of UUism.
Oh, right on, PB, excellent. My sentiments exactly. Thank you. Will share!
PB – I believe this is a “continuation” of the article referenced in your original post. Thank you for YOUR thoughts on the matter, I wanted to make you aware of this continued discussion!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/07/church-deacon-hooters-shirt-casual-attire_n_952933.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008