Dear ones,
A most talented and inspired laywoman from my congregation is at this very moment making a preaching robe for me out of an antique tablecloth that another member of my church gave me as a gift. It came from his grandmother in Europe. The emotional resonance of this robe is already very powerful for me. I get verklempt just thinking about it.
I have just seen the garment in progress and it is so exquisite I almost cried. The embroidery is breathtaking, and the way the “royal robemaker” (as she jokingly refers to herself) has set the details to flow with the design is sheer genius.
She wants to get it finished for this weekend so that I can wear it on the first Sunday of being the “Reverend Doctor.” Suddenly I thought about stoles. I always wear a stole, but I don’t want to with this robe. It is amazing alone and frankly, I just don’t want to cover the design.
This Sunday is Music Sunday and there is no need to wear a stole to represent the “yoke” of ministry for that occasion, even though we will be dedicating our newly-restored and refurbished organ. In general, my understanding is that there is no need, liturgically speaking, to wear a stole for most worship services. However, I wanted to check in with you all and get your opinion. I think a stole is important for christenings and obviously for Communion. I wear them at weddings and sometimes at funerals.
Have at it, pigeons. Stoles optional or mandatory (for certain occasions)? What does your tradition say?
What a beautiful and generous gift! For what it’s worth: In my tradition (ELCA Lutheran), the stole is a symbol of ordained ministry of word and sacrament, so would be worn for preaching as well as for presiding at baptisms and communion.
Would you typically wear a stole for preaching?
If so, would wearing a stole under the robe be a viable option (when I wear a chasuble,for example the stole is over the alb but beneath the chasuble) or would that just be weird? I suppose there is no law in these things…
I’m PCUSA (and proud of it!) I rarely robe up and do not own a stole. I borrow one for weddings, sometimes. A robe alone – especially one as special as this one – is perfectly appropriate IMHO. I hope you’ll post pictures, Doc!
I’ve gone the other way, and don’t think I’ll wear a stole and Geneva gown again. A collision of images. So it’s OK by me.
So…was PB made for tradition, or was tradition made for PB?
How about seeing if they can make a stole of the same fabric. Then all are happy.
Baptist tradition says that if you wear a stole half the congregation will get mad and leave to form their own church. If you don’t wear a stole half the congregation will get mad and leave to form their own church. If you wear a robe half the congregation will get mad…well you get the idea. Love God and do what you will.
The Apostolic Johannite Church requires the wearing of a stole at any service where the priest is acting in that role. Of course, we’re supposed to wear chasubles over the stole most of the time (although on High services we’ve worn the stole over the chasuble), as well, especially for the Sacraments. Since this is a prayer service and you’ll be acting as a minister of the Divine in the world, I’d suggest you wear the stole under the robe.
@Jean Re: no law in these things, on the contrary, many denominations have strict rules on what must be worn when, especially in regards to color. No absolute natural law, maybe…
For ELCA Lutherans, wearing a robe without a stole signals that the wearer is a layperson. (Unless you’re in a congregation that wears robes on Good Friday, on which day the pastor is often bare of vestments as the church is bare of paraments.) For example, my home congregation normally has several people robed up for service besides the choir. We have a lay assisting minister/cantor each week who wears the same robe as the pastor does (just your standard Almay); visitors can tell who is the pastor and who the lay leader bc the pastor wears a stole and the lay leader does not. The acolytes also robe, but their style of robe is slightly different (it has a hood).
However, a situation where you have multiple people in very similar robes is different from one where it’s obvious that one is different.
There is no rule about liturgical garments in the Episcopal Church- just tradition and local option. I have done baptisms in the ocean wearing a bathing suit and a t-shirt. I probably won’t show up in church like that. LOL — if they don’t know you are their pastor by now- wearing a stole or not wearing a stole is not going change that.
In the Old Catholic Church (which is NOT the Latin Mass, BTW). the stole is the symbol of ordained ministers and as such should be worn any time one is functioning in a liturgical role. They are normally worn under a chasuble or dalmatic, but can be worn alone with an alb. That being said, you won’t be excommunicated if you don’t wear one! Your robe sounds stunning. If you want to wear a stole, wear one under, if you don’t, then rock that robe! (our priest often uses new circumstances to change things up a bit without overly stressing the congregation’s sense of tradition.)
What I’ve seen in practice among UCC and Methodists is that the Stole is the mark of ordained clergy. (Remember the conventional wisdom that preaching is elevated to an almost-sacramental level in some settings that are not traditionally considered sacramental. The preacher as presider of worship is typically stoled in said settings, and not just when they are presiding at communion.) I am avoiding the potential conflict of the stole + gown, because it’s not a concern of mine, although I realize it is important for some people. I’ve seen a broader ecumenical movement that makes use of both gowns and robes depending upon the settings and context, and the stole is still considered important as a mark of ordained clergy. Well THAT was rambly, sorry. No time for editing 🙂
I agree with your assessment that the context matters. I have a bee-hoo-tee-ful royal blue silk robe that is open, with drapey front edges that would look positively ridic with a stole, so I don’t wear one with it. (I also wear a long black dress, or black shirt and slacks underneath!) I do, however, reserve it for less formal services, e.g., jazz evening services in the chapel, when I’m not preaching. I used to wear it in our very formal, high church Sunday am service. Then I saw a photo of myself standing next to my senior colleague in her black academic robe & stole, and thought: “Wow, I look like a kid.”
Welllll….we Congregationalists have no particular rules and no specific practices, so I’m betting that our sister tradition the UU’s don’t either…and most of our people couldn’t pass a pop quiz on the symbolism of the stole. I almost always wear one but not absolutely always. Clearly you’re going to say something about the robe and its symbolism and meaning; its story makes it redolent with symbols of covenant and tradition so I say, go for it!
I am United Methodist. I am going to be ordained this summer, but am currently what we call “commissioned” (it’s this awkward, you’re in, but not really in, kind of stage. So I do not currently wear a stole with my robe (but I will come June!). For now, I wear the cross necklace I was given at my commissioning service, which has different lanyards that can be changed out depending on liturgical season color. It’s large enough and bright enough that it can be seen in the congregation against my black robe. Maybe you don’t need a stole, but maybe some kind of necklace with an important symbol?
Do you want to be confused with the Verger? [ Well, if we had a verger I might be concerned about that. And I’ve never seen a Verger in a robe. Must be a Piskie thing, amirite?- PB]
My tradition says that a stole is necessary for sacramental services (e.g. communion, baptism) and not worn for simple prayer services. For a prayer service, I would wear a tippet/prayer scarf (looks a lot like a stole, but black).
A robe with no stole would most likely be perfectly appropriate, though some robes lend themself more to this than others.
Another ELCA Lutheran chiming in. While it is true that the stole is a symbol of ordained ministry, and should be worn when performing the duties of Word and Sacrament, it is also true that we routinely do not robe for “contemporary” services, or some outdoor services, or in summers when the church is just too darn hot for an alb – therefore we also typically do not wear a stole on these occasions. So it is permissible to do the ministry of Word and Sacrament without a stole.
For the service you described, I think the robe without the stole would be appropriate. And it sounds lovely. Post pics soon, please!
No rules in the World of Presby. I always where one, but I don’t have a robe that would be ANYTHING without one. I would skip it for sure in the occasion you are describing and probably any time I wore that particular robe. If you feel you really need to wear a stole on specific occasions and you don’t want to wear one with that robe, I’d just never wear that robe on stole-required days.
Ugh – WEAR one. Can’t believe I typed that.
I’m an Anglican and our traditional methods of “dress” are cassock and surplice with stole for morning prayer and alb with stole and chausable for communion services.
I wear the stole over the alb and then put the chausable on over the alb when it is time for communion (after service of the word).
Would it be possible to wear your stole under the robe so you know it’s there but it may not be fully visible?
If, in your heart, you love love LOVE this robe and don’t want to add anything to it, for it’s inaugural wearing, then DON’T.
Let the Holy Spirit lead you through this…and it will be FABULOUS! After all, you ARE the Rev’d Dr. PeaceBang! Congratulations!
I was at All Souls NYC one Sunday when Forrest Church explained in his sermon why he wore his academic robe–no stole with it. In my observing others, the academic hood would only be worn with the robe on special occasions. One of my preaching teachers didn’t like the idea of my wearing my doctoral gown as a minister because my doctorate isn’t divinity-related and precedes my ministerial study. I’m not yet ordained, and I’ve worn my doctoral gown to preach, and I wear my master’s gown with M.Div. hood to ordinations and other religious occasions. We Unitarians don’t have a set tradition for what to wear–I would encourage you to wear your newly received gown without stole if you think it looks appropriate. Your presence and your part in the proceedings identifies you as the minister-in-charge.
Wear ze robe and start your own damn tradition!
I started out in UU ministry wearing geneva gown and academic hood. Because I did not wear a shirt with buttons underneath, as did the men, I had no button on which to attach my hood in front and keep it from pressing on my throat.
Attending my granddaughter’s baptism at a UCC church in Missouri earlier this month, the minister, an outstanding preacher, wore pants and a dark plaid untucked shirt with the cord of his headset snaking into his pants pocket. Perhaps he thinks he is giving permission to his congregation to “come as you are” but I don’t think they need any permission. They are all over the map.
Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson (ELCA) wore an alb, pectoral cross, and stole to preach in at the Festival of Homiletics this year. He was not the presider, merely the preacher.
If your robe is an alb, I’d say wear the stole. Vesting should not be about the vestments or the wearer of the vestments–it is about God. Vestments hide us and bring out God. While lovely vestments are nice, they shouldn’t be the primary concern. If they are, just wear a smart suit and/or your collar.
If your robe is a Geneva gown, leave the stole in the closet. I very must dislike Geneva gowns and stoles.
The more I think about it, I think for the first Sunday of your being “Reverend Doctor,” you should wear full academic regalia, including the tam. Show the congregation the dress that they supported you in acquiring. Then wear the new gown the next Sunday, and don’t hide any of it with a stole.
I’m in the UK where there are a number of options… But a simple, unobtrusive stole never hurt anything. Just don’t end up on Bad Vestments.